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In favor of higher taxes?


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Is there something wrong with this teaser to a Star Tribune story?

"Scott and Carver counties don't seem eager to use their power recently passed at the Legislature to levy a quarter-cent sales tax."

Imagine that, a government not eager to take more money from people who are already seeing increases in prices for virtually everything they need to function on a daily basis.

 

Does the following lead to the story indicate flawed thinking? 

"Given how tight money and budgets are these days, it's hard to imagine any county government turning its back on millions of dollars."

"But on Tuesday, there were indications that Carver and Scott counties would do just that by not partaking of a $100 million pot of money for metro-area counties that implement a recently approved quarter-cent optional sales tax for transit projects."

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No judgement here, but I have some questions.

The sales tax money is for funding transit projects, so why are there transit projects in the bonding bill? Given how tight money and budgets are these days, what justification is there for a government body to raise taxes?

In tough economic times when individuals must consume less and live leaner, doesn't it make sense for the government to downsize? The government is funded by the people. Do people exist for the purpose of funding larger government that wants to consume more from the private market? In economic terms, would government be considered a producer or consumer? 

Given the rising price of gasoline, what right do law makers have to pass legislation that increases gasoline taxes even more? Is this immoral? Is it also immoral to increase the sales tax? 



The comment No judgment here...

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The comment No judgment here is miss leading, even if true. The idea that any issue invokes questions, is a judgment.
We need to look at all issues knowing that our solutions will be judged by history, on their impact on our society. Tight money, economy, price of gasoline, or other priorities there will always be some reason not to pay taxes. Sometimes paying taxes is just inconvenient and interferes with our personal lives. The same can be said for work.
To ask if raising a tax is immoral, opens up the need for much more discussion. Morality often, ebbs and flows with the material issues, and perceived needs one has. Moral arguments have been made both pro and con on; religion, slavery, war, capitalism, socialism, almost any ism that has faced man. My folk’s generation was born during the First World War, live through hard times in rural Minnesota during the 1920’s, then the great depression of the 1930’s. Many went off to serve in the military during the Second World War, some enlisted some were drafted. Others served on the home front, many things were rationed. There meatless days, ration cards and stamps for sugar, gasoline, tires, butter, cooking oil and many other things. The GI Bill was passed for service personnel coming home after World War II. Some of your parents and grand parents took advantage of the GI Bill to receive a college education. Tax payers supported the Marshall plan to rebuild countries torn apart by war and keep American industry busy. They then faced many years of the cold war, the space race and they ended segregation in America. These things all cost money and were paid for by tax dollars from many sources. The social security tax finance (or mandatory insurance payment) a good portion of the federal budgets from the 1930’s on. I know I heard many adults complain about taxes, while I was growing up. They complained but they build school, hospitals, public parks and building, an interstate highway system. They invested tax in infrastructure, colleges for education, student loans, public radio and public television. The REA, air traffic control, weather warning systems, a strong military, controlled our boarders, inspected our food, found cure and vaccines for disease, cleaned up the air and water of our country, provide safe working environments. They took a third rate country of the 19th century and turned it into the greatest nation on earth in the 20th century. Then they gave it to us, to care for and improve for future generation as they did for us. I know they had to give up a great deal in the 1900’s to give us the country we had in 2000. There is no free lunch, good government, good schools, good bridges, good health care cost money. To enforce good trade policies, secured boarders, law enforcement, it all cost money. There no free trade, some one somewhere will have to pay. The moral question is who. It is true we have rising price of gasoline but also have a declining dollar, its value seems to just keep trickling down.
What right do law makers have to pass legislation that increases gasoline taxes even more? They have the right of being elected to make decision on taxes and many other things as out lined in our constitution. Is this immoral? Is it also immoral to increase the sales tax? The morality of it, all depends on your values. Some people have sacrificed to make America great, other profit from America’s greatness. I was never blessed with children, does this mean for me to have to pay taxes for schools is immoral? Or is it just paying my share of what took to for me to be raised here in America, and to be able to give my opinion be it pro or con on any position.


Submitted by olddog1800 on March 14, 2008 - 9:48am.

Interesting comments. Higher...

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Interesting comments. Higher taxes at the beginning of a recession when inflation is rising and the dollar is falling aren't an -ism. They are a hardship, according to some people who must pay them.

Phill Gramm, former Representative and Senator from Texas, said once: "Government is not the generator of economic growth. Working people are."

The falling dollar is a big concern. In an interview with Larry Kudlow yesterday, Friday, President Bush said he is for a strong dollar. I haven't seen his treasury department reflect this with their policies, though. Right now because of the falling dollar, exports from the U.S. are up, but because of the weak dollar, prices for essentials like food and fuel are up, too. There is a balancing act, I am sure. But one way or another, Mainstreet American is not happy with what they're paying for food and gasoline, in my estimation. Looking at Minnesota, now just doesn't seem like the right time for the state government to be taking more money out of the private sector by raising taxes.

With that said, Minnesotans have the government they elected. It's totally within the elected officials' authority to increase taxes. I'm just curious if that's why people elected them. I wasn't in Minnesota for the last election. Did people elect legislators because they felt that they weren't giving up enough money to the state government? Do they feel the size and scope of the state government should expand? I suppose we'll see if people are happy with this after the next election.

There is no free lunch, and you cite good schools, roads, parks, buildings and hospitals as beneficiaries of working people paying more tax dollars. This may be the case, but just what should be the role of government?

That's a philosophical question, depending on how one interprets the constitution of the country and the state, I suppose.

Should the government be involved with providing all these services? Are government schools a success story? Should the government be as involved with health care as it is? When was the last time you were really satisfied after going through a government agency to receive services?

Ronald Reagan had something to say about this.

"We who live in free market societies believe that growth, prosperity and ultimately human fulfillment, are created from the bottom up, not the government down. Only when the human spirit is allowed to invent and create, only when individuals are given a personal stake in deciding economic policies and benefiting from their success -- only then can societies remain economically alive, dynamic, progressive, and free. Trust the people. This is the one irrefutable lesson of the entire postwar period contradicting the notion that rigid government controls are essential to economic development.”

Many would say the government should not be involved with so many ventures. Many people think it should be the private sector providing these services. This, they say, is for the simple reason that the private sector is accountable to the market and shareholders.

Government has responsibilities, but the question of what they are, or should be, is debateable. All the while, the government just keeps growing.


Submitted by FAdams on March 15, 2008 - 4:18pm.

Phil Gramm, an interesting...

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Phil Gramm, an interesting person to quote, Phil Gramm a “Reagan Democrat” and a supporter of Reaganomics. Between 1995 and 2000 Gramm, who was the chairman of the U.S. Senate Committee on Banking, Housing, and Urban Affairs, received $1,000,914.00 in campaign contributions from the Securities & Investment industry. Later in his Senate career, Gramm spearheaded efforts to pass banking reform laws, including the landmark Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999. An act the deregulated financial institution and repealed much of the Glass & Steagall Acts were both reactions of the U.S. government to cope with the economic problems which followed the Stock Market Crash of 1929. The Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act has help pave the way for our current economic problems and the “Neo-Con Tax” all U. S. citizens pay, the 33% drop in the value of their U. S. dollars.
Mr. Gramm is now a V. P. at USB (Union Bank of Switzerland) a diversified global financial services company, with its main headquarters in Basel & Zürich, Switzerland. It is the world's largest manager of private wealth assets, and is also the second-largest bank in Europe, UBS has a major presence in the U.S., with its American headquarters located in New York City. UBS's retail offices are located throughout the United States, and in over 50 other countries. Mr. Gramm caught up in the Enron scandal when it emerged that his wife Wendy help write, a exemption for Enron, from federal oversight while she was serving on the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. She then accepted a directorship at Enron. Mr. Gramm was personally involved further when it came to light that he had helped to turn the exemption into law as well as push through the deregulation of energy markets that led in part to the Enron scandal. During this period Enron was a major contributor to his campaigns. So much for Mr. Gram’s concern for the Working people….

You talk about Government as some evil thing out their, the boogieman ready to devour us. In the U.S. we ‘The People” are supposed to be the government. Government in it’s self is not bad, some times people we entrust and give power too, abuse that trust and power. It is true in Minnesota the dollar is falling, so are our bridges. We depend on our Federal Government to keep our dollars from falling; we depend on our State Government to keep our bridges from falling. Both have failed.
You say President Bush said he is for a strong dollar. President Bush has had seven years keep the dollar strong, this just didn’t happen overnight. The President has had seven years to solve the trade deficit, secure the boarders, and defend the Constitution of the United States.
Minnesota will elect a government again this fall, people will have to choose based on their priorities. Phil and Wendy Gramm made choices on their priorities while serving in the U. S. government, their priorities proved to be very profitable for them and the corporations they represented, but not so good for the tax payers.

What is the Governments roll? Who else is going to do it? How will you get a right of way to build a road with out government? Should every parent be responsible for their own Childs education? Will it be survival of the fittest? No law can be enforced without government. The Constitution can not be enforced without government.
There have been many success stories written about government schools. More people have done great things in this country started their education in public schools, could they be better? Yes they can and should be,
Should the government be as involved with health care as it is? I don’t think we should have government subsidized medicine, for government employees and elected officials, and have nothing for the people who pay the taxes that support those benefits. It’s a question of fairness. Congress has said citizens make too much money to qualify for health care benefits, but congressmen never make too much money to qualify.
Should the government be involved in free market contracts around the world?
Free market societies, what's free about them? There are no free market societies. Free market societies cost a lot of money. How much do we spend to protect ours? How money is spent lobbing by free market companies? The supply side, trickle down economy is not trickling down, it is now in free fall.
Will Mr. Gramm will get a pay cut, or a bonus?


Submitted by olddog1800 on March 16, 2008 - 4:35pm.

Good dialogue. Say what you...

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Good dialogue. Say what you want about Sen. Gram and Pres. Bush, but rather than attacking individual politicians, with whom you don't agree, let’s briefly define the economic ideas at issue here.

Supply-side economics is a catch-phrase that has come to mean tax cuts for producers. To get more specific, I’m fine with the Wikipedia definition that “supply-side economics is a school of macroeconomic thought that argues that economic growth can be most effectively created using incentives for people to produce (supply) goods and services, such as adjusting income tax and capital gains tax rates.”

Research reveals that the term was coined in 1975. The Reagan Administration was the first to implement it and then use it. However, the theories were implemented by J.F.K. in the 1960s. Argue all you want about whether or not the Reagan tax cuts of the 1980s or the Bush tax cuts of 2003 led to economic growth. Revenues have risen since the 2003 tax rate cuts, and nearly all of the gains are from top earners, including profits, capital gains and dividends.

The contrast of supply-side economics is Kehnesian economics. Wikipedia says that Keynesian economics (or "demand side economics"), "argues that growth can be most effectively managed by controlling total demand for goods and services, typically by adjusting the level of government spending.”

It would seem the majority of the Minnesota Legislature follows the Keynesian economic model.

The bottom line is that our economy consists of businessmen and women, the workforce, consumers, entrepreneurs, investors and the government. Higher prices for goods and services have people worried, and we’ll see how much voters appreciate the higher taxes with more government spending when the elections roll around.


Submitted by FAdams on March 18, 2008 - 2:59pm.

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